what is everyones stance on honey?

Flowerpetal, you're suggesting its better we commit suicide to the world than eat honey. What kind of logic is that? Seriously. I thought vegans were suppose to care about animals lives, their lives won't be too pretty with bees extinct.

Flowerpetal could not express the point more clearly:

"As a strict vegan I choose to avoid contributing or consuming a product that kills any sentient life directly or indirectly for the purpose of human use that can be avoided."

I just want to add a few points because we in fact HELP bees and they help us in return..


Regarding them being crushed:


"Yes, bees get crushed. Believe me that all the beekeepers I know try very hard not to do that, but realistically it's impossible. I hate doing it. But I do have to look through the colonies. In the past, that wasn't true .. one could leave the bees alone and they'd be fine; but that has changed, thanks to a very nasty parasite called VARROA DESTRUCTOR. For the first time ever, honey bees need our support to survive. They have absolutely no defence against this mite, which destroys a colony, typically in two or three years. Right now, the bees' only protection from this mite comes directly from the beekeeper. End of story."


Regarding clipping of wings


"Clipping legs of bees would be stupid and would achieve nothing. Clipping wings of queens does not, as I drum into my students, stop bees swarming. It merely slows them down by a few days, allowing more time for us to do an artificial swarm. I'm told that bee wings are like finger nails. There's no feeling whatsoever in them and the bee is not pained at all."


Regarding caging the queen myths


"If pheromones or caging the queen worked, I'm sure many would use them. They don't work and beekeepers don't do it, though a few may try caging. If you cage a colony that wants to swarm, you'll have a really hard time when you open the hive, because understandably they do not like that treatment and will likely explain that to you quite assertively!"


TONS more info on this here and from a VEG beekeeper!

So there you have it, honey should NOT be a vegan issue when we are really HELPING them. Without our support of buying honey there would be no funds to keep beehives and thus a whole lot less bees. With the recent dying of bees for unknown reasons i really do not think giving up honey would be a good idea. Case closed.

I don't personally see the big problem with honey, honey.

Dan, The idea that one issue needs to take precedence over another is ridiculous. It's like validating the omni argument that human injustice issues need to be addressed before non-human issues. Do you make a similar argument for people to ignore vivisection, companion animal abuse and the rape of the ocean? Simply because it has nothing to do with factory farming? If there were some dogs or other non-humans being assaulted in front of you, would you say:

Thanks for reminding me of the true spirit of why we're veg*n in the first place Dan!

The real question should NOT be whether honey is "vegan" or not, but whether or not it should be an ISSUE of importance over factory farming. Think about the prospective individual trying to become vegan. If we go by a strict definition of vegan, there is then absolutely no such thing as "vegan." You cannot tread lightly without injuring some form of life. Should animal advocates push the issue of not driving because it kills wildlife and insects? Absolutely not, even though transportation kills more insects than beekeeping/honey production. If someone chooses to be vegan and eat some honey they aren't evil. Be practical. Veganism is not about self purity or a list of ingredients, it's about reducing animal suffering! Pushing the honey issue with non-veggies does not help animals. period!

Personally, I think the idea of honey is just kind of icky. If it ever comes up with a non veg*n then I just explain that I prefer to use agave nectar because it's usually cheaper and it tastes better to me. That way, I don't have to try to explain the back and forth arguments on why to use or not use honey and I don't seem as "crazy" to people as some of us vegans tend to look.

The main reason I am vegan is to stop nonhuman sentient being exploitation. Allowing oneself to eat honey but still say you are vegan and care about what is going on in factory farms etc. you are being speciesist. I do not put any being above any else. Honey is murder. Bees are alive. Even though there may not be any evidence to show they suffer, they are still living things. I say stop exploiting all nonhuman beings. There are many alternatives to honey, I love agave nectar, great and much more healthy.

I am a long time vegetarian and a new vegan... but I agree that the use of honey and veganism do not go hand in hand. However a vegetarian may find it acceptable, as they do eggs and milk.

I've always found it easier to try and maintain a pattern of behavior that is as absolute in its logical execution. In practice, this means that no animal products whatsoever are consumed, honey included, and no first-hand leather, wool, fleece, etc. I know that it's likely I'll catch hell for stipulating "first hand", and thereby by extension expressing a permissive stance on the wearing of leather. I am of the opinion that - for myself - the use of already purchased animal products which are well-made and sustainable, such as shoes is better than burning through five pairs of Chuck Taylors over the course of one year due to walking all the time because I don't use a car.

Honey is disgusting because it is regurgitated nectar (BEE VOMIT) and it is also harmful to the hives because traditional bee keepers remove the honey and replace it with high fructose corn syrup which is NOT good for the bees. Anyone who says that eating honey is good and natural is out of their mind. Bees need this honey to survive and again as humans we exploit these poor creatures (by the way whose lives WE depend on to pollinate pretty much everything we eat produce wise) by forcing them to mass produce honey and then stealing it from them. This practice is just plain wrong and any vegan should be completely against it.

Flowerpetal is on point...100%

I don't have any issues with it and it offers so many benefits. You can argue some number of bees die in honey production but tons of insects die even more so in production of other products such as sugar, harvesting wheat, etc organic or not. You can't even drive your car down the street without killing a ton of bugs.

So if people do or dont want to consume honey then thats really their choice but those who dont eat it cannot preach about it unless they are growing their own food and not driving because they are technically needlessly causing pain to some insects. We could technically say those people are not vegan because they are still killing insects somewhere along the line.

http://www.compassionatespirit.com/is-honey-vegan.htm

Bee jizz, no thanks.