Honey, especially now

See, you're getting it all wrong when you say "some vegans eat honey."

Honey, I abstain for the same reason I abstain from other animal biproducts. Now I gotta say Free range honey... oh that would make my day. However the way they are gathered up and sealed off. It just seems wrong to me.

And like others said right now, with the population dying off, its important now more than ever to look at beeswax, honey, and combs in a new light. As they should be making babies!

Honey should not be a vegan issue. Read more on why:

http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html

Hmm, well like you said many fruits/veggies/grains use honey bee pollination so by buying those products aren't we already supporting the bee keepers?

From an ecological perspective:
*From what I've read, honey bees are more economically profitable as pollinators then for honey production

*It's the hives used for pollinating that originated and are predominantly where colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) is occurring. CCD acts similarly to how AIDS acts in people-it attacks the immune system and prevents little resistance to virtually any/all other mites/pathogens that the honey bee picks up.

*Entomologists have pinpointed that CCD in the U.S. was imported by exotic honeybees raised in other parts of the world by bee keepers.

*Speaking of exotics, most Americans don't know that honey bees were brought to North America by westerners in the 1700's to pollinate the foods they also brought with them. Meaning, honey bees are a now naturalized species of North America but actually don't belong there.

*There are many other bees around the world, honey bees are loved since they are not picky about what type of pollen (plant) they prefer vs. a lot of other species. In North America, many of our native bee species are endangered due to competition from introduced exotic bees and plants and the habitat loss of native flora.

I think the best thing you can do to help bees is to help promote native plants in your area that your local bees need to survive. It's better for the ecosystem and all species of bees because all the man-made uses of bees have reduced the gene pool available to bees that are important for long term overall bee viability.

Yes I am vegan that doesn't eat honey. In addition to all the reasons above, I don't like how bees can be killed in the honey production process whether by accident or on purpose (often the Queen is killed to alter allegiance from her)

whoa whoa whoa sorry to touch a nerve. gracious heavens.

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, though. it is always great to re-examine my stances and such. Also, if i get paid to be Devil's advocate, i would snap that job up!

Veganavenger, I agree with you to a point, but it was not humans responsible for the bee deaths. at least not this time. it was a pathogen. Green Gulch Farm in Muir Beach has a beekeeper that no sane person would label a "slave driver" [if bees are "slave-bees" they they must have a master, right?]. He is a very kind and loving gentleman, especially toward his charges. He teaches beekeeping "the Buddhist way" and never gets stung. He vigorously defends the Green Gulch bees from attacks from other creatures [like yellow-jackets, hornets and other predatory insects] and is all-in-all a very nuturing bee-keeper. I think supporting Green Gulch and his bee-keeping ways is a good thing. Also, "Slave bees"? really? Slaves?
hmm.

Caryne: many words undergo changes of meaning. Since my veganism was brought about in the hardcore environment, i will give you an example from that. "Straight-edge" was a term coined by Ian MacKaye of Minor Threat [and "currently" Fugazi]. Straight-Edge at that point was meant to mean he abstained from promiscuity, recreational drugs and smoking. But now, there are folks who would claim that straight-edge is no drugs at all, not even psychiatric medication, caffeine or anything of that sort. no tylenol, etc. but there are many pictures of mr. mackaye drinking coca-cola. obviously, he didn't 'intend' straight-edge to mean caffeine. but it has since changed.

One might not be able to draw a direct comparison, but i think the most important thing is to [within limits of course] weigh certain things in one's own mind. situations are different for different folks. Considerations change. I find that the idea of compassion to be my most valuable trait gained and nurtured from my own veganism. i have learned to respect others and try to see from different perspectives. I rarely find absolutes helpful [sometimes they are, but it is the exception, not the rule it seems]. Since i do not bow to a "vegan authority," to whom i pay membership dues, etc, i find someone elses YOU MUST DO THIS THIS AND THIS TO BE VEGAN very very unhelpful, and truly, not in the spirit of being vegan.

What does this have to do with bees? I tend to avoid honey myself [i just got this agave nectar from trader joes! it is awesome with cinnamon and earth balance on toast!]. But what i was trying to suggest is that maybe we can do more good by helping the bees [who we need. jeez louise do we need the bees! --whoa! that rhymed!] by supporting beekeepers, like the very excellent gentleman in Green Gulch. The more bees we have, the more plants you and i get to eat! Super-bee-death has the capacity to kill a lot of creatures besides humans, and butterflies just can't pick up the slack.

Bees are not "only created to be used by humans," but to pollinate. They are indeed precious! while we do abuse them, i think working for a better understanding of where humans and bees overlap is more productive than slogans and definitions.

[edited for spelling corrections]

Honey is NOT VEGAN.

We are responsible for the bees dying because we're the ones that have bred the colonies for the profit of larger crop yields, wax and honey. The non-vegan farmers will certainly repopulate the slave bees as fast as is possible without our help. It is my opinion that the precious bees would be better helped by leaving them the fuck alone and not stealing the honey, propolis and royal jelly from their babies and the wax from there homes.

Sorry you are wrong, no vegans eat honey. The Vegan Society defines it as a non-vegan product (after all it is the food produced by bees for their young so it is clearly an animal product) and, as The Vegan Society created the word 'vegan' they should know.

In the UK the farmers have had a hard time with assorted livestock diseases, if we followed your logic then we should all eat meat to help more animals to be born!!! However, if any animal (cow or bee) is only being created to be used by humans is it not better that it is not created in the first place?